Today, I'm talking to Dana Rao, who is General Counsel and Chief Trust Officer at Adobe. Now, if you're a longtime Decoder listener, you know that I have always been fascinated with Adobe, which I think the tech press largely undercovers. If you're interested in how creativity happens, you're kind of necessarily interested in what Adobe's up to. And it is fascinating to consider how Dana's job as Adobe's top lawyer is really at the center of the company's future. 
The copyright issues with generative AI are so unknown and unfolding so fast that they will necessarily shape what kind of products Adobe can even make in the future, and what people can make with those products. The company also just tried and failed to buy the popular upstart design company Figma, a potentially $20 billion deal that was shut down over antitrust concerns in the European Union. So Dana and I had a lot to talk about.

Links: 

Adobe abandons $20 billion acquisition of Figma

Adobe explains why it abandoned the Figma deal

Why Figma is selling to Adobe for $20 billion, with CEO Dylan Field

Figma’s CEO laments demise of $20 billion deal with Adobe

Adobe proposes anti-impersonation law

Adobe’s Dana Rao doesn’t want you to get duped by A

The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft

Adobe’s Photoshop on the web launch includes its popular desktop AI tools


Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23791239

Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Our Executive Producer is Eleanor Donovan.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

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Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen has been at the top of my list of people I’ve wanted to talk to for the show since we first launched — he’s led Adobe for nearly 17 years now, but he doesn’t do too many wide-ranging interviews. I’ve always thought Adobe was an underappreciated company — its tools sit at the center of nearly every major creative workflow you can think of — and with generative AI poised to change the very nature of creative software, it seemed particularly important to talk with Shantanu now.

Adobe sits right at the center of the whole web of tensions, especially as the company has evolved its business and business model over time. And now, AI really changes what it means to make and distribute creative work. Not many people are seeing revenue returns on it just yet and there are the fundamental philosophical challenges of adding AI to photo and video tools. What does it mean when a company like Adobe, which makes the tools so many people use to make their art, sees the creative process as a step in a marketing chain, instead of a goal in and of itself?

Links: 


How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao 


Adobe Launches Creative Cloud (2012)


What was Photoshop like in 1994? 

Photoshop’s Generative Fill tool turns vacation photos into nightmares - The Verge

New York Daily News, Chicago Tribune, and others sue OpenAI and Microsoft - The Verge

The FAIR Act: A New Right to Protect Artists in the Age of AI | Adobe Blog

Adobe’s Firefly generative AI tools are now generally available - The Verge

This Wacom AI debacle has certainly taken a turn. - The Verge


Transcript: 
https://www.theverge.com/e/23917997

Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen is confident we'll all adapt to AI

Today, we’re going to talk about the smart home — one of the oldest, most important, and most challenging dreams in the history of the tech industry. The idea of your house responding to you and your family, and generally being as automated and as smart as your phone or your laptop, has inspired generations of technologists. But after decades of promises, it’s all still pretty messy. Because the big problem with the smart home has been blindingly obvious for a very long time: interoperability. 

Yet there are some promising developments out there that might make it a little better. To help sort it all out, I invited Verge smart home reviewer Jen Tuohy, who is one of the most influential reporters on the smart home beat today. Jen and I break down how Matter, the open source standard, is trying to fix these issues, but there is still a lot of work to do. 

Links: 

Matter is now racing ahead, but the platforms are holding it back — The Verge


2023 in the smart home: Matter’s broken promises — The Verge


Smart home hubs: what they are and why you need one — The Verge


My smart kitchen: the good, the bad, and the future — The Verge


How bad business broke the smart home — The Verge


The smart home is finally getting out of your phone and into your home — The Verge



Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why the tech industry can’t crack the smart home

Today, I’m talking with Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath, whom I first interviewed on the show back in 2021. Those were heady days — especially for upstart EV companies like Polestar, which all seemed poised to capture what felt like infinite demand for electric cars. Now, in 2024, the market looks a lot different, and so does Polestar, which is no longer majority-owned by Volvo. Instead, Volvo is now a more independent sister company, and both Volvo and Polestar fall under Chinese parent company Geely. 

You know I love a structure shuffle, so Thomas and I really got into it: what does it mean for Volvo to have stepped back, and how much can Polestar take from Geely’s various platforms while still remaining distinct from the other brands in the portfolio? We also talked about the upcoming Polestar 3 SUV and Polestar 4 crossover, and I asked Thomas what he thinks of the Cybertruck.

Links: 

Can Polestar design a new kind of car company? — Decoder


The Polestar 3 isn’t out yet, and it’s already getting a big price cut — The Verge


The Polestar 4 gets an official price ahead of its debut — The Verge


Polestar makes the rear window obsolete with its new crossover coupe — The Verge


Volvo and Polestar drift a little farther apart — The Verge


Polestar gets a nearly $1 billion lifeline — The Verge


Car-tech breakup fever is heating up — The Verge


Polestar is working on its own smartphone to sync with its EVs — The Verge


Polestar’s electric future looks high-performing, and promising — The Verge


Electric car maker Polestar to cut around 450 jobs globally — Reuters




Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/23912151

Credits: 
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Polestar CEO Thomas Ingenlath on life after Volvo and weathering the EV slowdown

Today, Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins and I are going to try and figure out Tesla. I said try — I did not say succeed. But we’re going to try. That’s because Tesla has been on a real rollercoaster these past two weeks, in terms of its stock price, its basic financials, and well, its vibes.

If you’ve been following the company, you know that that gap between what the business is and how its valued has been getting bigger and bigger for years now – and lately, with Elon Musk saying he’s going all-in on autonomy and announcing a robotaxi event in August, it seems like we’re getting closer to a make or break moment, especially as competition in the broader EV market heats up. 

Links:

Tesla reaches deals in China on self-driving cars — NYT


Elon Musk goes ‘absolutely hard core’ in another round of Tesla layoffs — The Verge


Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to dozens of deaths — The Verge


Elon Musk says Tesla will reveal its robotaxi on August 8th — The Verge


A cheaper Tesla is back on the menu — The Verge


Tesla’s profits sink as the company struggles with cooling demand — The Verge


Tesla lays off ‘more than 10 percent’ of its workforce, loses top executives — The Verge


Tesla recalls all 3,878 Cybertrucks over faulty accelerator pedal — The Verge


Elon Musk says it’s “time to reorganize” Tesla — The Verge


Elon Musk lost Democrats on Tesla when he needed them most — WSJ



Credits: 
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright. Our supervising producer is Liam James.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Understanding the chaos at Tesla

A lot has changed since the last time Ola was on Decoder. Back then, he said Mercedes would have an all-EV lineup by 2030 — a promise a whole lot of car companies, including Mercedes, have now had to soften or walk back. But he doesn't see that as a setback at all, and he and Mercedes are both still committed to phasing out gas in the long run.

We also spent some time talking about what's happening both on the outside of cars — Mercedes' classic look and its EV look aren't necessarily quite in the same place — and on the inside of them, as infotainment becomes a huge point of competition and design.

Links: 

How Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius is refocusing for an electric future - The Verge

Mercedes-Benz opens its first 400kW EV charging station in the US - The Verge

Mercedes-Benz is the first German automaker to adopt Tesla’s EV charging connector - The Verge

Is the metaverse going to suck? A conversation with Matthew Ball - The Verge

The Mercedes G-Wagen, the ultimate off-road status symbol, goes electric - The Verge

Mercedes workers file federal charges with NLRB to stop union busting - The Alabama Political Reporter

The MBUX Hyperscreen - Mercedes-Benz USA



Transcript:
https://www.theverge.com/e/23904592


Credits:
Decoder is a production of The Verge, and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
Today’s episode was produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and was edited by Callie Wright.
The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Adobe is managing the AI copyright dilemma, with general counsel Dana Rao

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